Abortion

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Abortion

Postby TollandRCR » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:09 am

neonzx wrote:http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm
snip,
(j) The term “religion” includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee’s or prospective employee’s religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business.

Thanks. It looks to me like a clause that is being stretched beyond its reasonable limits. I imagine that for decades this has been interpreted to mean such things as providing ways for an employee to observe religious holidays. However, it never extended to such things as requiring employers who provide cafeterias to provide Halal or Kosher kitchens, or permitting Sikhs to wear their beards and carry their knives in the armed services. An anti-choice employee of Pfizer gained no right to demand that Pfizer stop developing and selling birth control pills. This looks to me like an attempt by the anti-choice crowd to extend this requirement for reasonable accommodation far too far.
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Abortion

Postby neonzx » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:27 pm

I wrote back....

Mr. Manion,

Hostility from me? Certainly not. Some mockery, at most.

I'm very aware the Civil Rights Act of 1964. But, it seems some wish to take from it far more than was the intent. Was the intent to permit employees to discriminate against others rights?

Forgetting for a moment that Planned Parenthood offers a wide range of women's health services, of which less than 5% are abortion related, abortions are legal. (sorry to remind you) Mr. Graning chose to deny accommodations for this customer trying to access health services, which may or may not have been abortion related. Also, what was Mr. Graning doing even snooping in the customer's private business?

Mr. Graining was terminated for insubordination, not his religious beliefs. It's not possible for an employer to "reasonably accommodate" an employee who, on a whim, refuses to do his job. An attempt to cater to an employee's impulses would present an "undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business."

-neon
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Abortion

Postby verbalobe » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:24 pm

neonzx wrote:...An attempt to cater to an employee's impulses would present an "undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business.

Especially this business -- presumably something like a bus service? I'm not sure if it includes special services like short-hop 'charters' or disabled-lift vans... or if it's mostly scheduled services... or how much of it if any is city run, vs. private.... but in any case, to a first approximation, a business like that will go down FAST if it becomes randomly unreliable. Its entire business model is, we get you there. Providing an accommodation whereby sometimes the company doesn't "get you there" -- or gets you there late because Graning was on duty and we had to call in a replacement -- that's more than an "undue hardship", that's the heart of things.

Maybe Graning would like to be hired back, then have the entire company fold, and everyone lose their jobs*.

Interesting exchange, neonz.

Edit: *I don't think it's relevant to the specific interpretation of the Civil Rights Act, but this action of Graning bespeaks an extraordinary intolerance (of course, he'll argue that his firing does, too). We're familiar with this intolerance from the anti-choice crowd, though. It is an absolute intolerance, of anything in the slightest connected with abortion -- education, birth control, "information", rape kits, etc. Graning's action, taken to a not-so-absurd-extreme, would deny transportation, for any purpose, to anyone connected with, or contemplating, or providing, abortions. It would deny me a trip to the bank, if somehow he knew (or suspected!) that was headed there to make a withdrawal for a PP donation, or perhaps if I ever had. A utopia to some, I am sure.
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Abortion

Postby LM K » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Get the Kleenex ready.....

This guy is my hero.

Aaron, the writer of The Daddy File, and his wife, had to abort a dying fetus a few weeks ago. She had Sirenomelia, AKA Mermaid Syndrome, and was missing her kidneys and bladder.

I really recommend reading both of these blog posts in their entirety. The video has gone viral. Aaron has written several posts about his family's experience with this pregnancy and the ending of it. I recommend reading them all.

Dad fights back against clinic protesters:

I made a deal with myself and the universe this morning. If the pro life protesters didn’t negatively affect MJ today, then I wouldn’t let them affect me. After all, she’s the only one who matters right now. It’s not time to be selfish, it’s time to do whatever it takes to make MJ happy.

When we drove up this morning, my blood boiled immediately. There were more of them today, on each side of the street. And this time they had an increased number of signs and banners. One said “99 Babies Saved Since 2009.” Another said “God is Pro-Life.” One guy had a picture of a fetus that said “Is This a Child or a Choice?” I took deep breaths and put my arm around MJ. When they spotted us walking toward the door, they started yelling.

“YOU’RE KILLING YOUR UNBORN BABY!” was the most offensive of the remarks I heard.

snip.....

But when I looked at MJ she was in tears.

Those self-righteous assholes had gotten to her. Without knowing one solitary thing about her or why we were there, they inserted themselves directly into our nightmare and made it that much worse. So now my wife, who was already nervous as hell prior to surgery, is near hysterics. Me not being allowed in there with her only made it that much more painful.


Aaron's video of the encounter. FF to 45 seconds. Video is sideways, which he does apologize for.



Hands down, my favorite part of that video is when the lady on the right asks me if I’m recording and then turns away. This is a woman who stands out in public all day long yelling awful things at complete strangers, holding offensive signs that are seen not only by the women at the clinic, but also the countless people (and kids) who pass by. Yet when I’m recording her she turns away to hide her face and calls it “ridiculous.”

snip.....


Aaron's wife MJ writes a post on his blog a few days later

snip.....
Back to yesterday, there was nothing worse in the world as the protesters telling me that I am killing my unborn baby. REALLY?!?! Are you sure its me killing my unborn baby and not an ultra rare birth defect?? Then the signs saying “God is Pro-Life.” Seriously, if he is pro life then why am I carrying a child that is dying inside me? Or my personal favorite, which was “Take my hand, not my life.” I would love to. But instead I have to sit in a chair staring at these assholes telling me how I should feel and what I should be thinking.

snip.....

Regardless, they have no idea what is going on. But as far as they are concerned I was killing an unwanted pregnancy.

snip.....

.....I vowed that when I wake up, I’m giving these assholes a piece of my mind and hopefully give someone the ability to get the help they need without being screamed at.

I have always believed that out of bad comes good. As we were leaving yesterday I looked around and realized all the protesters were gone and a marked cop car was parked in front of the building. As we turned to go home I asked Aaron, “What did you do?” He looks at me and says with a straight face “I didn’t get arrested!”

As we drove home, Aaron told me what had happened and how he went over there and had a talk with them. I was overcome with pride that he was able to single-handedly have the cops called on him by the protesters and that the protesters had to clear out. As I settled in for the hour ride home I finally felt a sense of peace, because we were able to give someone the opportunity to get help, make an informed decision about their body and future without being taunted or bullied by the people who have no idea what was going on!

Aaron doesn’t think he did anything heroic. I know better.
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Abortion

Postby kate520 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:31 am

Wow. Just, wow.

Good for Aaron.

'Scuse me, i'll be back in a minute. I need a tissue.
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Abortion

Postby neonzx » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:00 am

kate520 wrote:Wow. Just, wow.

Good for Aaron.

'Scuse me, i'll be back in a minute. I need a tissue.

Get another tissue. This is from his June 26th post,
...
The doctor came in and immediately started asking MJ a barrage of questions about her health history. It became abundantly clear that this guy might be an expert in examining ultrasounds, but some etiquette and sensitivity classes would’ve also been a worthwhile investment. With deft skill but horrible manners, he viewed the baby from every possible angle as MJ and I struggled to keep our shit together. Then he stopped and looked at us.

“The fact that the legs do not separate and won’t move is highly unusual,” he said. “It leads me to believe there is some kind of lower extremity defect.”

I’m not a religious person and I’ve never believed in heaven or hell. But there is a hell. Hell is sitting next to the person you love most in this world and listening to her wail hysterically because her heart just broke into a million pieces. Hell is watching her entire body convulse with sobs as she screams because she’s being tortured with grief. For as long as I live and no matter how many children we have, I will NEVER forget that sound. Ever.

I tried to hug her, to hold her hand, to console her in any way I could. But she just pushed me away and screamed at me to get away from her. In that instant I was completely powerless. My baby is sick and there is nothing I can do for him/her. Nothing. I can’t even hold the baby to comfort it. My wife is devastated too and once again, I’m powerless to do anything about it. I couldn’t make her feel better no matter what. I can’t fix my child, I can’t comfort my wife…that feeling of helplessness is crippling. And terrifying.
...

The Words No Parents Want to Hear
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Abortion

Postby elliewyatt » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:46 am

bogus info wrote:Isn't this fired driver going to have to prove this woman was going to Planned Parenthood to obtain an abortion? :?


Does it matter? What business would it be for a Mormon driver who is to take someone to an event where alcohol or coffee might be consumed? Or for one of Pentacostal faith to drive someone to a dance? Or a Muslim to take someone to a dog show? A Jew or Muslim driving a customer to a banquet where pork roast will be served? A seventh Day Adventist where meat will be served?

Gads. :evil: !!@$%*@!
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Abortion

Postby LM K » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:41 am

The anti-abortion folks are now emailing Aaron. Unfreakingbelievable. Everyone has the right to believe what they believe. But sometimes there is a time to keep one's opinions to oneself. ](*,)

If your up for it, give Aaron some :xo .
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